So homosexuality is something that has been thoroughly discussed on this blog. See: Homosexuality Part1 Part2 Part3 Part4 and this well thought out response. While it is clear from the comments that we don't really agree on the topic, all thinking people, whatever their views on the topic should be outraged by what happened in Uganda. Every life is sacred, and the law should provide equal protection for everyone, regardless of their sexual orientation. If you don't agree with them, pray for them, minister to them, but do not kill them. HABA!! Having said that though, I am not sure I agree with politicizing the situation. The US needs to leave Uganda alone to figure out their gay policy. I just don't think that policy should involve killing anyone.
Hmmm!!
Article and video below
Showing posts with label homosexuality. Show all posts
Showing posts with label homosexuality. Show all posts
Thursday, January 27, 2011
Thursday, July 16, 2009
Homosexuality IV: The christian POV.
This is my conclusion to this controversial topic. The final issue I plan to tackle in dealing with this topic is - What does the bible say about homosexuality in particular and sex in general?( I am a Christian, so that is the only worldview I can work with)
As prudish and unrealistic as this may sound, this is the Christian standard: No sex before marriage, and no homosexual sex – period!! As we have established earlier, the person who commits adultery or fornication is no better than the person who engages in homosexuality.
There are three main passages in the bible that deal with this issue (of homosexuality):
i)There is the story of Sodom and Gomorrah (found in Genesis 19) where the principal reason for the destruction of the cities was supposed to be homosexuality.
ii) There is the invocation in Leviticus 18:22
Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.
This is just one interpretation that they put forth. There are several more.
Read the whole thing – Veeery fascinating.
iii)Then there is the passage in Romans: Romans 1: 26-28, which reads:
For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting
If I had to play devil’s advocate, and anticipate the argument from the other side, I would admit that there is stuff from Leviticus that I ignore – I eat all sorts of seafood for instance, there is stuff from Paul that I don’t really obey – like covering my head in church, and the story of Sodom and Gomorrah – could be subject to interpretation if you so chose, I suppose.
However, there are several other verses, some of them pretty harsh that literally promise fire and brimstone for homosexual activity. All put together, they paint a certain picture – that sexual activity in Christiandom is limited to a man and a woman in a marital relationship – PERIOD!
For those who want objective, scientific answers, here is the truth: There is none. This is a question that can only be answered based on your worldview. If you have a faith-based worldview, then you just have to believe what the bible says. And if you don’t….., well I guess you have the right to live based on how you see life and eternity as well.
How do we handle the disagreement? Don't ask me, I have no idea. There are no easy answers, but I doubt that criminalizing is the way to go. The only way to change behavior is to change people's hearts.
One last interesting titbit before I leave this topic alone:
A couple of weeks ago, this lady pastor was all over the news. Obviously, one of her congregants was gay, and they decided that the solution was to carry out an exorcism. Then they posted the process on youtube, and all hell broke loose. It was interpreted by those outside the church as gay abuse. I found it interesting that nobody in the larger church body had anything to say ( that I am aware of anyway) about this. Everybody kind of kept their head down until the wind blew over.
See for yourself:
It sounds kooky to the CNN interviewer, but she is preaching the christian POV. Actually, any African pentecostal church would do the same thing. I applaud her courage standing up for her beliefs, even as if forces a realization upon the rest of us that the christian worldview is not popular and unlikely to be applauded by the larger society.
This whole series started with a policy question: Should homosexuality be criminalized? Now I ask another one: should Christians be casting out the "evil spirit"?
Well, I could say much more, but I will just leave it at that.
Comments, insights, etc are welcome from both sides. We need to keep having a civil conversation about these things even if we don't agree.
Ciao!
p.s did you notice this interview was done the same day MJ died? That is why I think everybody forgot about it so quickly.
As prudish and unrealistic as this may sound, this is the Christian standard: No sex before marriage, and no homosexual sex – period!! As we have established earlier, the person who commits adultery or fornication is no better than the person who engages in homosexuality.
There are three main passages in the bible that deal with this issue (of homosexuality):
i)There is the story of Sodom and Gomorrah (found in Genesis 19) where the principal reason for the destruction of the cities was supposed to be homosexuality.
The gay response? “The Genesis 19 account of Sodom and Gomorrah is a story of attempted gang rape of two "outsiders." It says nothing about loving gay relationships, and actually condemns the sort of violence sometimes done to gays and lesbians.” (read the rest here and also this interesting defense.
ii) There is the invocation in Leviticus 18:22
Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.
Gay defense: National Gay Pentecostal Alliance (NGPA) interpretation: The NGPA has produced a word-for-word translation of the original Hebrew. 4 In English, with minimal punctuation added, they rendered it as: "And with a male thou shalt not lie down in beds of a woman; it is an abomination. That is, "... rather than forbidding male homosexuality, it simply restricts where it may occur." This may seem a strange prohibition to us today, but was quite consistent with other laws in Leviticus which involve improper mixing of things that should be kept separate. e.g. ancient Hebrews were not allowed to mix two crops in the same field, or make cloth out of two different raw materials, or plow a field with an ox and a donkey yoked together. A woman's bed was her own. Only her husband was permitted there, and then only under certain circumstances. Any other use of her bed would be a defilement.
This is just one interpretation that they put forth. There are several more.
Read the whole thing – Veeery fascinating.
iii)Then there is the passage in Romans: Romans 1: 26-28, which reads:
For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting
Gay interpretation: Some question whether the word "perversion" in Verse 27, and "such things" in Verse 30 are related to only certain types of gay and lesbian behavior. e.g.: Homosexual orgies, or
Group same-gender sexual practices in a religious setting. This was a common practice among Pagans at the time; e.g. in the temples dedicated to the Goddess Aphrodite. Casual homosexual activities outside of a committed, monogamous two person relationship, or Homosexual molestation between a man and a child. In Paul's day, the child victim was often a slave.
These probably were the only forms of same-sex activity that Paul was familiar with. Paul may well have not been thinking of gays and lesbians in committed relationships when he wrote this passage. He never referred to such couples in his writings, and probably never encountered any during his lifetime. He might simply have been condemning homosexual orgies and other sexual activities outside of a monogamous same-sex relationship.
Read the rest
If I had to play devil’s advocate, and anticipate the argument from the other side, I would admit that there is stuff from Leviticus that I ignore – I eat all sorts of seafood for instance, there is stuff from Paul that I don’t really obey – like covering my head in church, and the story of Sodom and Gomorrah – could be subject to interpretation if you so chose, I suppose.
However, there are several other verses, some of them pretty harsh that literally promise fire and brimstone for homosexual activity. All put together, they paint a certain picture – that sexual activity in Christiandom is limited to a man and a woman in a marital relationship – PERIOD!
For those who want objective, scientific answers, here is the truth: There is none. This is a question that can only be answered based on your worldview. If you have a faith-based worldview, then you just have to believe what the bible says. And if you don’t….., well I guess you have the right to live based on how you see life and eternity as well.
How do we handle the disagreement? Don't ask me, I have no idea. There are no easy answers, but I doubt that criminalizing is the way to go. The only way to change behavior is to change people's hearts.
One last interesting titbit before I leave this topic alone:
A couple of weeks ago, this lady pastor was all over the news. Obviously, one of her congregants was gay, and they decided that the solution was to carry out an exorcism. Then they posted the process on youtube, and all hell broke loose. It was interpreted by those outside the church as gay abuse. I found it interesting that nobody in the larger church body had anything to say ( that I am aware of anyway) about this. Everybody kind of kept their head down until the wind blew over.
See for yourself:
It sounds kooky to the CNN interviewer, but she is preaching the christian POV. Actually, any African pentecostal church would do the same thing. I applaud her courage standing up for her beliefs, even as if forces a realization upon the rest of us that the christian worldview is not popular and unlikely to be applauded by the larger society.
This whole series started with a policy question: Should homosexuality be criminalized? Now I ask another one: should Christians be casting out the "evil spirit"?
Well, I could say much more, but I will just leave it at that.
Comments, insights, etc are welcome from both sides. We need to keep having a civil conversation about these things even if we don't agree.
Ciao!
p.s did you notice this interview was done the same day MJ died? That is why I think everybody forgot about it so quickly.
Tuesday, June 23, 2009
Homosexuality III - Where does homosexuality come from?
Finally!! I am back folks. Let the parry continue!
Where does homosexuality come from? The argument of many in the gay community is that it comes from nature, while opponents say that it is learned behavior – more popularly called “choice”. The science is also very bewildering – is there a gene? Are you born that way? It is all very confusing. Most Christians are against homosexuality because it is in the bible (wait for Part IV of this series), and so they believe that it must be a choice because GOD cannot create what HE forbids. Gay people say that they are who they are and they have always been that way. Also confusing matters is the large number of individuals who were sexually abused as children. Donnie McClurkin was one of those children, and his life story was made into a documentary entitled “ The Donnie McClurkin Story: From Darkness to Light.” It is a powerful story and I encourage everybody who has not seen it to get a copy. The bottom-line of the story is this: he was raped by an uncle as a young child, and he believes that experience triggered his lifelong struggle with homosexuality. As an aside – he says he has been delivered from it, and he is much hated by the gay community as you can see here .
Both sides believe that their stance is fundamental to their argument – if it is a choice, then they are immoral people, choosing to live in sin. If it is nature, then you have to accept it, because why would you mess with nature?
Mmmmmm! To prove their case, the pro-nature group point to homosexual behavior in animals to point to its “naturalness” so to speak. Check it out
The choice group however refuses to accept that explanation – you can read a representative rebuttal here . Basically, they say that there are a lot of things that animals do that we as humans don’t do, soooooooooo……!
Further complicating matters is this issue of transgender individuals, people who believe that they are born into the wrong sex – and choose to change their gender first by crossdressing, and then later by more invasive surgical procedures. This is also happening at younger and younger ages. Interesting story here
And fascinating video from Barbara Walters below:
Exactly what is going on? Frankly, I don’t know. However, this is what I think – reducing the whole argument to nature or nurture is simplistic and misses the point in my opinion. People are born with all kinds of physical, mental and emotional conditions – Siamese twins, six toes, without legs, blind, deaf, dumb, mentally retarded, etc, etc, etc. I don’t see why logically people cannot be born with gay. The issue for me is not whether people are born with it or not. The issue is whether it should be regarded as an impairment, or as normal. For people with the conditions mentioned earlier, everybody recognizes the abnormality and attempts are made to fix them – twins are separated, extra toes removed, technologies designed to help the blind cope, etc. However, trying to infer that gay people need fixing is very politically incorrect, at least in the West, and can land you in all kinds of trouble.
Most people have heard, or made the plumbing argument – that by design, a guys appendages are designed to fit into a woman’s , errrr, “lack of appendages". (Did I put it delicately enough? LOL!). If you have appendages, you are a guy. If you lack natural accessories, you are a woman. Anything other than that is unacceptable, strange and freaky. So when a boy wants to be a girl, or wants to kiss a boy – the rest of us are taken aback because its not normal. It does not fit the design. For many, the revulsion is religious – all major religions ban same sex attraction. For others, it just ain’t right!! There is just this inner aversion to this same sex thing. Is that nature, or prejudice?
So I guess the bottom line of this long talk is this – regardless of whether you think it is nature or nurture – is it something that needs to be “fixed” or something that needs to be accepted?
I know that I am not going to resolve this argument tonight. I am just presenting both sides of this argument. Besides, homegirl is tired and needs her beauty sleep.
Next time, I will talk about Christian disapproval of the homosexuality, and the gay response. Researching that was a lot of fun let me tell you!!
Where does homosexuality come from? The argument of many in the gay community is that it comes from nature, while opponents say that it is learned behavior – more popularly called “choice”. The science is also very bewildering – is there a gene? Are you born that way? It is all very confusing. Most Christians are against homosexuality because it is in the bible (wait for Part IV of this series), and so they believe that it must be a choice because GOD cannot create what HE forbids. Gay people say that they are who they are and they have always been that way. Also confusing matters is the large number of individuals who were sexually abused as children. Donnie McClurkin was one of those children, and his life story was made into a documentary entitled “ The Donnie McClurkin Story: From Darkness to Light.” It is a powerful story and I encourage everybody who has not seen it to get a copy. The bottom-line of the story is this: he was raped by an uncle as a young child, and he believes that experience triggered his lifelong struggle with homosexuality. As an aside – he says he has been delivered from it, and he is much hated by the gay community as you can see here .
Both sides believe that their stance is fundamental to their argument – if it is a choice, then they are immoral people, choosing to live in sin. If it is nature, then you have to accept it, because why would you mess with nature?
Mmmmmm! To prove their case, the pro-nature group point to homosexual behavior in animals to point to its “naturalness” so to speak. Check it out
The choice group however refuses to accept that explanation – you can read a representative rebuttal here . Basically, they say that there are a lot of things that animals do that we as humans don’t do, soooooooooo……!
Further complicating matters is this issue of transgender individuals, people who believe that they are born into the wrong sex – and choose to change their gender first by crossdressing, and then later by more invasive surgical procedures. This is also happening at younger and younger ages. Interesting story here
And fascinating video from Barbara Walters below:
Exactly what is going on? Frankly, I don’t know. However, this is what I think – reducing the whole argument to nature or nurture is simplistic and misses the point in my opinion. People are born with all kinds of physical, mental and emotional conditions – Siamese twins, six toes, without legs, blind, deaf, dumb, mentally retarded, etc, etc, etc. I don’t see why logically people cannot be born with gay. The issue for me is not whether people are born with it or not. The issue is whether it should be regarded as an impairment, or as normal. For people with the conditions mentioned earlier, everybody recognizes the abnormality and attempts are made to fix them – twins are separated, extra toes removed, technologies designed to help the blind cope, etc. However, trying to infer that gay people need fixing is very politically incorrect, at least in the West, and can land you in all kinds of trouble.
Most people have heard, or made the plumbing argument – that by design, a guys appendages are designed to fit into a woman’s , errrr, “lack of appendages". (Did I put it delicately enough? LOL!). If you have appendages, you are a guy. If you lack natural accessories, you are a woman. Anything other than that is unacceptable, strange and freaky. So when a boy wants to be a girl, or wants to kiss a boy – the rest of us are taken aback because its not normal. It does not fit the design. For many, the revulsion is religious – all major religions ban same sex attraction. For others, it just ain’t right!! There is just this inner aversion to this same sex thing. Is that nature, or prejudice?
So I guess the bottom line of this long talk is this – regardless of whether you think it is nature or nurture – is it something that needs to be “fixed” or something that needs to be accepted?
I know that I am not going to resolve this argument tonight. I am just presenting both sides of this argument. Besides, homegirl is tired and needs her beauty sleep.
Next time, I will talk about Christian disapproval of the homosexuality, and the gay response. Researching that was a lot of fun let me tell you!!
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